Honolulu CrimeStoppers’ program w/ Sergeant Chris Kim

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Interview Transcription

ATTILIO:
nine six or check us out online at Team lolly.com. Our guest today is an HPD sergeant, sag actor and public speaker. He was born in South Korea and migrated to Hawaii with his parents during his younger years. He had been a law enforcement officer or has been for 23 years now recently played as sarjan l Pulao. Wait, pull Yahoo in a series Magnum PI with American Actor Jay Hernandez. Please welcome our guests Honolulu Crime Stopper coordinator Sergeant Chris Kim.

SGT. CHRIS KIM:
Aloha.

ADRIENNE:
And welcome back. Yeah, I know. We’ve had you on the show before and we’re really pleased to reintroduce our audience to to you and the program.

SGT. CHRIS KIM:
Yeah. Thank you so much.

ATTILIO:
You know, an interesting thing I was at art showing debut kind of thing for an artist in Kailua or the gallery. I was talking about this being big, big guy, on the whole time yada yada chatting, and then, you know, I don’t have broadcast TV. So I don’t know if people are on these shows or not. And then at the end, I said, Well, what do you do for a living? And he said, He’s the he’s the helicopter pilot on Magnum PI. Oh, wow. So but very humble guy. Interesting conversationalist. But anyway, so that mean, that’s probably a guy you see then being on the show, huh? Yeah. I’m sure yeah, he’s

ADRIENNE:
a co worker.

ATTILIO:
I’m the old school. I’m the old school from the Tom Selleck days where he’s driving the Ferrari. And he’s going past Hanauma Bay and then he takes a corner and next you know, he’s in Wahiawa. Yeah. But, so, Crimestoppers, that’s where we’re at right now stopping the crime, Crimestoppers. Tell us about your how you ended up getting into Crimestoppers in that position.

SGT. CHRIS KIM:
So basically, I joined the police department back in 1998. out of college, I kind of went through the various divisions patrol. In 2010, I was assigned as a detective. And you know, I kind of moved around within the division and I wanted to be well versed in all facets of investigative work. So I did sex crimes are the major crimes that the drugs ended up into as a detective in the homicide detail. But what had happened was a previous coordinator, Sergeant Kim Buffett had announced her retirement back in 2017. At that, at that time, I was actually wrapping up a year long divorce process and now became a single father of two little girls, and I wanted to provide some stability as far as scheduling. So Sergeant profit had said, you know that I should kind of throw my name in the hat. And I did and things kind of worked out. And I began to go into programming 2017 And here I am today.

ADRIENNE:
Now, what have you been able to accomplish? What are you most proud of Sergeant Kim, on the time that you’ve been running this Honolulu Crime Stoppers?

SGT. CHRIS KIM:
I think what I’m most proud of is that in, you know, when I took over 2017, I was looking for a change. So although it started off with a wonderful job with the program for the past 12 years, and I just kind of came up with a different set of eyes and different visions, and I kind of worked with our current team, and we did some things. And fortunately, in 2019, I was invited to be a guest speaker at the National Conference, the Crimestoppers, USA National Conference, where they have attendees from 350 Plus organizations from across the United States, Puerto Rico, Guam. And they have also announced, you know, the, they’re announcing the national award winner, and I was, I was actually in shock basic. Yeah, I still fall without words now, because I, you know, local boy from Hawaii was there on a big national stage. And when dad said, you know, this person, his accomplishments, like, in my mind, I’ll see a lot of guys copying everything that I’m doing. You have a doppelganger of this. This guy’s doing everything that I’m doing, Oh, this guy sounds great. And they said, you know, the 2019 Crimestoppers, USC national coordinator. The year started Christina from Honolulu, Hawaii, and I just went numb, you know, so, no, so that was an awesome accomplishment, but also just being recognized. At the State Capitol, I got called to the state capitol, got called into the floor with my mother and my daughters and my brother’s present there, and just just receiving that award from the state, you know, that that definitely huge accomplishment. Considering, you know, just a couple years prior, I was probably in the deepest, darkest point in my life, you know, where a lot of bad things are running through my head and just didn’t feel like going on anymore. And I just kind of told myself, you know, unfortunately had a good support group that kind of encouraged me and cheered me on and so yeah, just being at the state Capitol with with my mother and my kids president and me getting that award.

ATTILIO:
I was uh, yeah, it’s good to see the acknowledgement of all your hard work because it’s obvious that you poured your heart into this Crimestoppers.

SGT. CHRIS KIM:
Yes, I do what? I tell people. You know, it’s a team. It’s not just me. Yeah, I’m the recognizable face. I’m the spokesperson. But at the end of the day, there’s so many other people behind the scenes you’ll have officer going across now my Secretary Donald Takashi goals. I have awesome group of volunteers, spotlight as well as a volunteer board members, you know, so it’s definitely a team effort, along with the community and media, like you, folks, cells. Just everybody’s working together for the common goal of fighting crime within our community.

ATTILIO:
Yeah. I think it’s it’s when and talk about the origins of how Crimestoppers came about. I thought it was a very interesting story that’s on the website.

SGT. CHRIS KIM:
Yeah. So basically, back in, I believe, was in 1976. There was a young gas station attendant working extra shifts in New Mexico, Albuquerque, New Mexico. He’s working at gas station, and he got gunned down, he got shot and killed. believe I believe in like a blaster robbery. Yeah. And this young detective and Greg McAleese was assigned the case. And he basically was at a dead end, you know, very little clues, you know, and he just kind of thought to himself, you know, what, I know that there’s someone out in the public that knows something about this case. So I want to work with the media, I’m going to put this thing out to the news to the community, saying that we’ll offer you a cash reward. And we’ll keep you anonymous if you have any information regarding this case. So they did a segment of the case. And within 72 hours, they had effect an arrest. And my understanding what it was is the tips or had actually saw the incident that he saw the vehicle to get away. And in 1981, that the program was brought to here to Honolulu, Hawaii, where last year we just celebrated our 40th anniversary. We’ve been hugely hugely successful you we managed to accomplish so many things. So yeah, once again, I’m very proud of it, you know, but you know, it’s a community, everybody working together.

ATTILIO:
Well. And I want to add to that story to tug on people’s heartstrings and why Crimestoppers is important. That guy only took the extra shifts because he was about to get married. And because of Crimestoppers, you know that that he got his family got justice, but I’m sure there are many, many stories like that all across the nation, even here in Honolulu. Which you guys Crimestoppers.

ADRIENNE:
Yes. So, Sergeant Kim, I know that you guys have different kind of like divisions of the Crimestoppers. Yeah. Can you touch on that, please?

SGT. CHRIS KIM:
Yeah, so we have the, you know, one facet is the the regular Crimestoppers program. And then we also have the student Crimestoppers program, which is called in 1997, in partnership with the Department of Education. And what was at the time is that, you know, we understand that the kids, you know, it’s already hard being a student nowadays, we just want to kind of for them focus on their studies, and not have to worry about their safety in schools. So as the program actually allows them an avenue resource for them to report things to us anonymously. For instance, we’ve had cases where students have brought, you know, weapons to school, whether it be a gun or a knife, or contraband drugs. And the student is able to call the hotline or download our newest things, the app, the p3 tests app, were able to jump on their smartphone and submit the tip like, Hey, I saw such and such this morning with a gun or a vape or drugs. And we then work with the school administration. And we keep that tissue the student anonymous, and we offer them a cash reward. So we’ve had so many success stories. You know, one story that you know, I always like to share is that we spoke at a particular school about 1000 students, the Intermediate School in fact, and the next day we had received a tip. tipster was saying that their friend was being sexually assaulted by three boys. We then worked with a sex crimes detective investigated the case. And the case was bonafide, we were able to locate a victim and identify three suspects who was sexually assaulting this young girl. Three boys are subsequently placed under arrest of Section six sex assault. And I truly believe that this tipster, you know, whoever they are, did the right thing. And they, they knew they had to say something. And we gave them that, that resource that avenue for them to report it to us. So when I went back the following year, to that same school, you know, I basically looked at the CEA students I just said, you know, I don’t know who you are on a few here today. But I just want to thank you, thanks for paying attention. And thank you for reporting that to us. I was assessed as detected before, and it’s not uncommon for kids to not report things immediately. There’s a lot of delayed reporting going on when it does come to children. And that’s why the state allows a longer statute of limitation for them to come out later on in life when you do build up the courage to say something on this particular case once again, you know, the victim said something to a friend and basically had told the friend don’t say nothing please like I don’t want to do but you At the friend do is that she had to do something or he or she had to do something and report it to us. And we were able to put a stop to it.

ATTILIO:
You know, that would be the one good story that we have a lot of apps on the phone. With the kids and stuff. That’s always a challenge. But you know, you can be like, Hey, I did a tic tock video and then I stopped drugs on my, my school. All from the same phone. Yep. Yeah.

ADRIENNE:
So. So Sergeant Kim was like the school was out for a while. Yeah. And now that they’re back in person and back in session, how often are you guys able to get in front of students? And how do you how maybe like an administrator is listening

ATTILIO:
to requests to the schools? Yeah, let’s

SGT. CHRIS KIM:
Yeah. Yeah. So pre COVID, we would go up to the various different schools, we actually worked very closely with as part of the Tenri Attorney General’s Office, Miss Angela, Ed coulomb, oh, whoa, whoa, was my sidekick my partner in crime. She is a community and safety specialists. So we co present together at the various schools. But once COVID hit, we, you know, we need to take a break, we actually went on, we started doing a lot of our presentations via virtually, whether it be you know, Zoom WebEx or Google meets, or whatever the case may be, we still want to accommodate the students. And even during the summer, you know, I want to put a shout out to Eli school for reaching out to us for their summer programs. So we spoke to the students over the summer I deal on you know, we’ve had a bunch of requests coming in, we’ve had new Valley intermediate just reached out to us recently, we got something in the works with them. Just a different listeners out there, you know, what if your school administration faculty, what have you or even parents, you know, if you’re hearing this, and you want us to come out to your schools and speak to them, please reach out to us call our hotline at 808-955-8300. And just let them know that you want to schedule a presentation, we go out and we talk to the kids about various things than the hottest topic these days is social media safety, Internet safety, you know, because there are so many predators out there that are targeting our young children via the Internet or via social media, and they’re basically grooming them, you know, those, it’ll start off as simple. These kids, unfortunately, they’re they’re trying to garner as many likes or views or what have you. And these people are then soliciting these young kids by for one posing as modeling scouts. Or I can make you famous or, you know, I can get 100,000 flowers for you, this is all I need for you, I just need more photos. And it starts off that way. These kids are kind of falling for it. And then they start soliciting more and more photos, as to put on news released a couple months back because these kids were getting messages through the Instagram, reporting themselves to be as model scouts. And Dan was sending Uber drivers or Lyft drivers or, or a basic right to the house to pick them up and having to meet them at the mall. So and, you know, just actually having these Honolulu, so people around kind of shocked because people are like, oh, you know, why is this kind of thing happening in East Honolulu? Well, it’s the, there’s no discrimination, these predators are out looking for anybody. And basically think about the whole island of Hawaii, you know, all the kids are on some type of social media platforms.

ADRIENNE:
So Sergeant Kim, I know that you use social media tips and tricks as far as their profile and behavior. Maybe you could share a couple of them with our audience. Yeah, right now. Yes. Okay.

SGT. CHRIS KIM:
So first and foremost, number one rule, parents get involved. Yeah, a lot of times, the reason why these kids are communicating with these predators out there is because, you know, I get it, you know, it’s already hardly going to Hawaii, a lot of times parents have to work two jobs, and they’re so consumed with their daily lives, that the kids aren’t getting the attention from home inspectors, then meet these kids online and start showering them with a 10 to start giving them that sense of belonging or sense of love. And they start buying them things and what we call that the grooming process, where we meet these kids and start grooming them, right? Start sharing similar like similar interest, starts giving that lending and caring here, and the kids fall for that. So first and foremost, parents, please be involved. know, we’re all very busy, but some way shape or form, be involved in your kids lives, have periodic talks with him, have the safety talks with him about the internet about the dangers that are out there, you know, there are very various videos on YouTube, that you folks can watch together with your kids, just we should talk about these things. Second of all, kids are going to have some type of social media, you know, make sure that you do monitor it, actually tell these kids as much as possible. Keep your you know, as long as you’re keeping keep your profiles private, you know, it’s don’t just share amongst your friends and family. And if you’re going to have a public profile, be very cautious about the type of information that you’re putting out there. You know, we had a particular case where these predators had solicited photos. It was basically this young girl that had posted some photos in you know, some booty shorts or whatever. And then this person started complimenting her and asked for Simpson photos and she sent it Yeah, and basically He was getting kind of creepy. And he basically said, If you don’t send me any more nude photos, I’m going to come to your house and I’m going to kill you. Yeah. And what was very disturbing about this particular case is that when we looked at the girl’s profile, there actually was enough information that she was posting, she was posting to Pfizer’s uniform, school uniform pictures outside the house, inside the house with the cars, posting their daily activities, or today have, you know, dance lessons, or today have volleyball? Yeah, whatever. So these days purchase herding cats schedule based upon the post that she was putting up. You know, the families want to wear this. So that’s nothing that we do talk about is, you know, if we highly encourage you to put your profile tight, especially if you’re a juvenile. But if you’re going to have a public profile, be very, very cautious as to what you’re going to post on there. But also, never, ever, ever communicate with people you don’t know on social media.

ATTILIO:
Not your family or that you don’t know in school. Yeah, yeah, thing is this, these phones have substituted the human relationship or bypassed it?

SGT. CHRIS KIM:
Yeah. So back in the day, we told kids like, I was told don’t talk to strangers on the street. Well, it’s different. Oh, no, it’s don’t talk to strangers on the internet.

ATTILIO:
Well, the strangers have more access. You know, I exactly. I held off on all of my kids, my son was the only junior at Kamehameha Schools with no cell phone. But I said, you know, what got 490 of them around, you just borrow one. So we finally got one when he went off to college, and then my daughter, we held a little bit, you know, maybe maybe like freshman year, and then my, my youngest 14, finally got one and I said, you know, here’s the conversation I want to have with you with my 14 year old, you know, if someone were to come to my door right now, and you’re in my house, and they say, oh, I want to harm your son, oh, we would have a problem in that on that doorstep. But these people have access to you and I, you know, be there, I can’t be at the front door answering it every single time. We have some rule set up, you know, he at 11, the phone is does not go in the room, it sits on a shelf outside the room. And none of that, you know, like he said, None of the communicating with anybody on there unless it’s family. But you know how I get involved. I play Pokemon with my kids, and I’m sending them gifts and communicating with them. And we have a little private chat group, but it’s just me and my three kids. That’s it. Yes, I’m super boring. I’m a 54 year old that plays poker Oh, no, no. Because I’m concerned about my kids. And I want to meet them where they’re

ADRIENNE:
at. All three of my kids all have the social media and the phones. And it’s like, it’s a full time job monitoring all their accounts and conversation. So you know, I think this is very valid

ATTILIO:
advice to bring to the parents. Yeah, serious. Like you said,

ADRIENNE:
it can be. Yeah, it can be very dangerous. Well, you know, we’ve got to, we’ve got to warn them. And we’ve got to also get surgeon kit out to the schools. Yeah, talk directly with the kids as well.

ATTILIO:
So administrators, parents, please, if you’re hearing our voice, call your call your school get sergeant came out there to do these presentations. I’m sure you guys. You fast forward today, you’re not doing as many as you used to pre pandemic, right.

SGT. CHRIS KIM:
Correct. So pretend that yeah, definitely. We’re not doing as many but yet, we still follow up. It just because we’re not doing the presentation that the schools are still part of the program where we are receiving the tips. We do have posters at the various campuses. So it’s constantly these kids are being constantly reminded me Oh, very happy to see that we still do see these tips coming on, which basically showed us in other cases, they they honestly want to take the proactive approach and keeping the campus safe. You know,

ATTILIO:
they do care. Yeah, you know, I mean, these kids are like, oh, let’s go mute off campus. And then next, you know, there’s a fight. And if the thing is on YouTube, about people doing, because I know you can in the mobile app, you guys can submit videos if people are doing wrong, wrong stuff.

SGT. CHRIS KIM:
Evidence. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

So we saw this thing when we talk to these kids, and we talk about, you know, so that’s one of the other tips that we get about fighters in the fight after school. Yeah. And we work the squid ministration work with HPD. And make sure that you know, we do have enough security in the whatever location after announcing, yeah, but also we also talked about don’t post those videos, because it’s actually, I give a different perspective. I tell them, you have to understand the person that’s being filmed this fight, let’s say someone’s getting beaten up, there’s some someone’s getting bullied. So it’s already happening one way you guys are posting things like that, you have to relive it over and over again. So you kind of have to think differently about just be very mindful, be very, no, just don’t be so quick to post these types of things. don’t glorify it. Yeah.

ADRIENNE:
You posted it’s there forever.

ATTILIO:
there forever. That’s what these kids don’t realize. Yeah. So you got the mobile app. I you know, I tell the parents, you know, what, if they’re gonna have tick tock and Instagram, put this app, they got to have this app on the phone on their phone to p3. Tell them That’s it. That’s a trade off.

ADRIENNE:
And then you also have the the animal Crimestoppers, can you share with us a little bit about that? Maybe some success stories and carefully.

SGT. CHRIS KIM:
We can’t forget about our furry friends. So that was when we started the animal Crimestoppers program in partnership with the Humane Society. And what it is, you know, we, it allows communities to get involved in helping to combat animal cruelty within the community. So something as something like you know, your neighbor’s dog on a short leash in a hot tub with no food or water. We’ve had more severe cases where there was a case last year where a particular school the gentleman came into work and found a mutilated cat detail surveillance and saw, you know, possibly five individuals on campus overnight, changing his cat around and ultimately, using a bow and arrow to kill the cat. Yeah, we then put snippets of that video out there, obviously not the graphic parts of it, but just of the individuals and it was actually an 18 year old female that was identified and arrested. For that case, we’ve had other cases, you know, those one of the adultery qualities, the puppy that was buried in the sand and lower lower Lake Beach Park, oh, well, that would actually be a national recognition as a little puppy. That was buried in the sand. We miss certain information, the dog was able to be rescued. Although we’ve never been able to identify the suspect in that case. Yeah, that puppy actually made for recovery made national news and ended up being adopted. I want to see someone on the outer island ultimately adopted that, that puppy. We get all kinds of different cases and people. We have some recent ones too, a few months back, you know, where a dog was found, stabbed. complainant woke up in the morning, couldn’t find a dog and they said witness was able to locate the dog nearby and had been stabbed the owner symbol, like 20 times or something. Yeah. And also received a bunch of tickets for that, too. So we work closely depends on the classification. The case will be afforded to me to say just like the ones that have long and short leash, but there’s more the the serious cruelty dental cases, we then work closely with HPD detectives.

ATTILIO:
Yeah. The other thing, talk about you guys funding because I think there’s a myth out there that you guys are like,

ADRIENNE:
yes, a nonprofit organization.

SGT. CHRIS KIM:
Yes. I want to see the big Yeah, the biggest misconception is people seem to think Crimestoppers is part of HPD that were funded by the city or to the police department, oh by the state. But the fact of the matter is that the Crimestoppers organization is completely separate, registered 501 C three nonprofit organization. Although I’m a sworn officer with HPD, I actually oversee this nonprofit program, the law enforcement aspect of it. But the program itself is only funded through donations or for annual fundraisers are not due to COVID, unfortunately, are different Galus typically are held in April was canceled, as well as our golf tournament have been canceled. But I’m happy to announce that this year, August, I don’t know the exact date just yet. But we’re looking in August, to have our annual Crimestoppers golf tournament. So the public, please be on the lookout for that, you know, if you’re, you know, you want to be involved you and help support us or you just love playing golf, you know, and be surrounded by good people offer a good cause, you know, please register for golf tournament. You can also check out our website and look at the various ways that you can donate to us. We do have a longtime supporter that helps wonderful family, but they want to be kept anonymous, from the public, but even longtime supporters and we’re kind of going through our whole COVID thing and all events are canceled, you know, they reached out to us they started to kill, we just want to do a master match campaign with you folks, you know, we want to match any donation that you folks received during this particular timeframe. Back in 2020 and we’ll match it up to $25,000. I want to say with the fundraiser or by just reaching out to people we managed to bring in I believe it’s like 17 18,000 but you know this wonderful family and ended up matching 20,000 mascot and then some the kind of carried us the athletic kind of carried us through the 2020 2021 fiscal year. But now, you know, we still we’re still looking, you know, for people to donate to our cause.

ATTILIO:
When I wanna, you know, I’m gonna appeal to our fellow business owners because we we decided to take a step forward and donate money and then get him being an

ADRIENNE:
annual annual.

ATTILIO:
So here’s for your business people you know, it’s it’s a starting game. I know you notice it’s like the most popular radio station is what Adrian? Wi FM No, it’s the team on stage show. No, no, no, it’s not our show. It’s what’s in it for me. So if you’re a business owner out there, if if a consumer is looking at your business, and there’s a competitor that’s pretty similar and the consumer is having a hard time telling you apart 90% of the time they will go with the business that is giving back to their community. So if you want to do more business, get more clients because have an annual sponsor of Crime Stoppers do the right thing, do the right thing. You get a backlink? Yeah, you know, it’s

ADRIENNE:
Win Win Win,

ATTILIO:
win, win win. When you get more business, you’re helping Crimestoppers, you’re helping your community that’s three wins. So

ADRIENNE:
the funding though, for this, I know that you guys don’t have like, a huge overhead, but then there’s also money that’s given away for the reward the reward? Yeah, talk about that.

SGT. CHRIS KIM:
Yeah, exactly. So basically, you know, we, you know, we do have, you know, our bills, you know, we have, you know, the rewards that we put out, you know, also our printed materials, our posters, with also our membership with a national organization, we, because we are some from the police department, you know, all our bills are separate as well. And what I mean by that is like, our phones are on our phones, they don’t have caller IDs, because that’s one of the biggest thing about our program is anonymity, anonymity of it. So therefore, we have to have a separate phone lines from Donald Police Department, we’re able to not have any caller ID and things of that sort, you know, so we do have our bills. But we’re very fiscally responsible, you know, our basic art testing for is on our website, you know, we’re very transparent. And we’re very, you know, happy to say we’ve been around for 41 years. And the reason why we’re so successful is for the Committee’s of volleyball. So just the way we manage things and the way we handle ourselves. We want to be fiscally responsible. We want to be transparent. We want to let the people know that this is where the money is going. So yeah, so please, you know, and I want to thank, you know, I spoke with you, folks last weekend, as soon as we have, you know, I got a wonderful email saying that you folks, were a business sponsor for sure. Crimestoppers looking loudly. So thank you so much.

ATTILIO:
Yeah, you know, and you’re right i You guys tax forms right there within took me five seconds, I got the tax filing for the nonprofit. So everything is it was a call, it’s sunny in the sunshine. Yes. In the sunshine. Everything’s all there for everybody look at and so I like you guys mission statement, we make our community in schools safer by soliciting anonymous information helpful to law enforcement, and school administrators. Because so you guys are are part of the peace process of keeping our campuses safe. Because then our parents worry, right? So is that when there was when there was doing zoom school? It was like, Oh, get these kids out of here, Eddie. Yeah.

ADRIENNE:
So Sergeant Kim, as we wrap up the show, is there anything more that you want to say to the listeners, that we can leave them a question

ATTILIO:
we should ask that we haven’t?

SGT. CHRIS KIM:
Yeah, um, you know, so, in a nutshell, you know, if you’re aware of any type of crime going on with the community, you know, we understand, you know, people are typically scared of retaliation or retribution, or my neighbor is going to find out or someone’s going to find out that I said something, yeah, we get it. And that’s why we’re the Crimestoppers program, we get a few that avenue, Rafi, that resource report things to us. We promise to keep you anonymous, we promise to keep your information safe. We work closely with the different Investigative Division. And if your tip leads to an arrest or a case being solved, you then are eligible for work up to $1,000. You know, it’s through the payoff process. We keep it anonymous as well. But just in closing, I just want to say a huge thank you, thank you to the community. Thank you to the media. Thank you to Tim Valley, you know, some people like you to just all get involved in supporting us. We’re also once again, as I mentioned earlier, working for the common goal of keeping our island home safe.

ADRIENNE:
Yeah, and thank you for all you do and all you’ve been able to accomplish and just what is it just the five six years that you’ve been there?

ATTILIO:
Yeah, national level. So that says something.

ADRIENNE:
And to your team, because I know there’s a lot of behind the scenes people so yeah, good job.

ATTILIO:
No, unlike team now, you know, it’s all me.

ADRIENNE:
We also operate same way we have a wonderful team behind us that is working diligently behind the scenes. Well, thank

ATTILIO:
you, Sergeant Kim. Thank

ADRIENNE:
you, Sergeant Kim. Yes, sorry.

SGT. CHRIS KIM:
Thank you. Okay. All right.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

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