Essential Environmental Safety in Real Estate with Kenton Beal

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Interview Transcription

ADRIENNE: 
Welcome back, and thanks for listening to the Team Lally real estate show, home of the guaranteed sold program, or we’ll buy it. I’m Adrienne and I’m Attilio. And if you have any questions, you can reach us at 7999596, or check us out online at Team Lally com.

ATTILIO: 
Hey. Today’s guest was born in Redwood City, California, and grew up with a passion for the for the natural world. After earning a degree in geology from UC Santa Barbara, he moved to Hawaii to complete a master’s in Geology and Geophysics at u h Manoa, launching his career in environmental consulting. Soon after,

ADRIENNE: 
as President of ENPRO Environmental he leads efforts to protect and improve our environment outside of work, he enjoys playing guitar, mountain biking and recently picked up pickleball. Please welcome our guest, Kenton Beal,

ATTILIO: 
hey, Kenton,

KENTON: 
hello. How are you folks doing? Great, great, great.

ATTILIO: 
We are looking forward to talking about the thrilling, exciting and amazing topics of lead, asbestos and mold. No, it’s, it’s, I tell you, we’ve done been in real estate long enough that when these things come up, we need somebody. You’re like Princess, you know, like the sellers, like Princess Leia asking for Obi one Kenobi, help us, because we have lead or these things in there.

ADRIENNE: 
So what we find most frequently is, like, water damage. Yeah, we see the leaks, and then, because of our climate, the mold will start to form pretty quickly, yeah.

ATTILIO: 
So well, we’ve had experience with all of these. Yes, lead paint from old homes, asbestos in those old popcorn ceilings, but I

ADRIENNE: 
think the most common that we come across is the water damage in the mold? Yeah. So let’s, let’s start with that.

ATTILIO: 
Which one mold?

ADRIENNE: 
Yeah, anything about for $300

ATTILIO: 
what is mold on Jeopardy?

KENTON: 
Yes. So mold is a biological entity, and like all biology, it needs food. And probably the most important thing is that it needs water. And so the main strategy for controlling mold would be controlling water and moisture Gotcha.

ATTILIO: 
And so once you’ve done that, like, what do you guys, where do you find yourself? Describe, like, a situation where you’re finding yourself being called in to get involved, a real estate situation?

KENTON: 
Well, the real estate situation is typically on the buyer side. Actually, that’s true for pretty much all of these issues. The buyers are the ones that are concerned. Either they’ve observed the condition that’s obvious, or they just have a general concern, and they want to check the property out to make sure that it doesn’t have mold in it, even though it appears, you know, open house, ready? Yeah.

ATTILIO: 
And so you guys do some mold testing, describe to us what that looks like. We

ADRIENNE: 
actually, we had a we had a buyer. That was, they were, they were just showing the property. They hadn’t even put in an offer. And they said, Oh, is it okay if we have a mold inspector? Yeah, because this, you know, particular person was extremely sensitive to mold, yeah. And they wanted to make sure, before they even went through it that there’s no evidence of any kind of potential mold. Do you come across those kind of people frequently, with the extreme allergies?

KENTON: 
Well, it is a very good point that mold affects different people differently. You said the key word allergy. Some people are allergic and very sensitive to mold, and other people, you know, are almost almost immune to it. So it is the people that are more sensitive that are going to be more cautious, and those are typically the types of buyers that are asking. Us to look for potential mold in an area that you know isn’t obviously affected by water damage or mold contamination. Yeah,

ATTILIO: 
I can can mold levels in a home be super high and but completely not visible.

KENTON: 
It’s pretty unusual, but but mold can occur in hidden places, and that gets to be trickier to find, wall cavities, underneath cabinetry, behind wallpaper, underneath tile flooring, and those are harder to find. Usually, part of our mold inspection is going to be collecting air samples, okay? And that is going to give you a concentration of mold that’s in the air. And there are situations where you don’t see the mold, but you have elevated air sample results, and then that might indicate a bigger problem. Yeah,

ATTILIO: 
so that’s something that you guys do and and then do you? So you do the mold testing. Do you do the mold abatement?

KENTON: 
We will do the project management for mold abatement for clients that that want, you know, some expertise to guide the contractor. We’re not a mold abatement contractor. There’s several very good ones across the state, and those are the ones that we would use. We would read, you know, if there was a defined problem that needed to be fixed, we would reach out to qualified abatement contractors and let the owner decide which one they want to work with. And then we manage it, we schedule it, we got you oversee their work, and then we do the final testing.

ATTILIO: 
That’s good, because I think it removes any kind of bias, like,

oh yeah, I

made it all the mold, it’s all gone, and I tested it’s not there anymore, but you’re separate, so that that adds a level of accountability to the process, which is good and and the so mainly, you guys, if somebody, for sure, 100% wants a third party to test for mold, if it’s there, and then test again that it’s gone. That’s where you guys come in.

KENTON: 32:27
Exactly. Yeah, that’s correct. Okay,

ADRIENNE: 
okay, so now let’s talk. Let’s move on to asbestos. Tell us about about that, like, what is that process? And you know what? What kind of services do you offer in regards to asbestos? Yeah, okay,

KENTON: 
okay, actually, if you would allow me to segue from mold into asbestos, mold remediation typically involves removing building materials, and a lot of times it’s drywall or ceiling material or flooring, and these are all materials that are suspect to potentially have asbestos in them. So prior to conducting the mold remediation we would do, we would take samples of the material that needs to be removed and analyze that for asbestos. So that’s how those two subjects are very tightly connected. Asbestos actually is a naturally occurring fiber. It’s not biological, but it is a mineral, and it’s it used to be used in a wide variety of building materials because of its very attractive properties, it has good tensile strength, it’s lightweight, it’s fire resistant, and so it had its heyday of being very popular in a lot of different building materials. It’s easier to talk about the materials that do not contain asbestos, because pretty much everything besides five or six might contain asbestos. So your granite floor tops. Natural rock doesn’t typically contain regulated asbestos. Glass doesn’t metal, doesn’t rubber, doesn’t cork and fiberglass, which is just another form of glass, wood also does not contain asbestos, almost every other material in in the built environment would be suspect for asbestos. Yeah. And

ADRIENNE: 
then, how do you, how do you determine if there is asbestos present? What’s the problem that’s

KENTON: 
that’s. Yes, that’s sometimes a bit of pain that somebody has to absorb, because in order for us to identify asbestos in a building material, we need to take a physical sample. And in fact, the Department of Health requires us to take a minimum of three samples for each material that we’re worried about. Gotcha. So that’s tricky in a situation where the buyer wants to find out, but they don’t own it yet, and the seller is kind of like, No, I don’t want you to take a piece of my drywall material. Yeah, my newly renovated kitchen. So, so that is a little bit tricky, and that typically requires some negotiation and some good faith that are involved.

ATTILIO: 
Yeah, I think if the the good faith part is letting them do it, and then the negotiation part would be like, okay, and then you’re gonna this, you know, no asbestos there. You’re gonna find, you know, you’re gonna make the repair back to original as best as you can in that situation, right? And then, so you test it’s there, and then describe to people, you know, you’re gonna project manage the removal of it, and what is, what does that take? You know? What are the general rules concerning removing asbestos?

KENTON: 
Typically, it’s done in a negative air containment, so they build like a plastic bubble around it, and they pull air out of the inside of the working area through a filter, and so that that creates a negative air, so that no dust really escapes. All the you know the containment is pulling air into it. And personal protective equipment on the workers. They wear the bunny boots and the respirators, real close management of the waste. It all needs to be bagged and wrapped up, and the outsides of the bags need to be cleaned. And one of the key techniques is to use wet methods. They use water, they use misting. And the whole aspect is to keep dust to a minimum and then make sure that no dust removed escapes from the work area. So the reason for that is that asbestos is an inhalation hazard. Yes, you don’t want to breathe. It got you. And that’s, that’s the key thing, and that’s something that a lot of people don’t understand about asbestos, is that if it’s in good condition, yes, and you’re

ATTILIO: 
anything with whatever, yeah, yeah,

KENTON: 
if you’re gonna just leave it alone, it’s, it’s perfectly fine. It’s not hurting anybody,

ATTILIO: 
yes. Okay,

ADRIENNE: 
so, um, so Kenton, where are people most commonly finding asbestos, and why would they remove it? Like, what’s the motivation?

KENTON: 
I would say would be the first thing that comes to my mind, and people don’t like it because, you know, it’s kind of dated, yeah, and there’s a lot of better options, a lot more esthetic options for texture. So it’s a common renovation, and unfortunately, also is a common location for asbestos.

ADRIENNE: 
So like homes that have the popcorn ceiling that were done, is it like there’s a certain year that this popcorn ceiling stopped being asbestos, or all popcorn ceiling has asbestos in it?

KENTON: 
Not all of any material has a distance in it. So that’s where it’s tricky. That’s why we have to sample and run analyzes the age date really doesn’t work, because most applications of asbestos have not been banned until very, very recently, like within the last couple of years.

ATTILIO: 
Oh, really.

KENTON: 
So you know, almost, almost any indoor space that somebody’s going to renovate is potential to have asbestos. I am not saying that it all does, yeah. I’m saying that it potentially does. And if it’s going to be disturbed, you need to snap what? Yeah,

ATTILIO: 
gotcha. That’s,

ADRIENNE: 
that’s good to know. Good to know.

ATTILIO: 
All right. And then

ADRIENNE: 
let’s move on to the the lead paint, because I know that one that there’s a year that we like to follow, especially in real estate, we even have a lead based paint addendum. Um, yeah. Yes. So let’s talk about lead, lead based paints.

KENTON: 
Yes, so, and that’s a good segue, because we were just talking about a year or born on date, like we like to joke around in the office. I believe it’s 1975 for lead. What does your brochure say? It’s 75 or 78

ADRIENNE: 
I think to be on the safe side. I think it’s like push to 79 still, you know, before then, you know, because who knows, paint could be left over. So just to be on the safe side, well, yeah,

ATTILIO: 
safe side is tested, yes, again, it’s any homes built prior to then, we are required by the EPA, as licensed realtors, to provide a lead paint addendum, yes, that the buyer needs to acknowledge,

ADRIENNE: 
yep, and the seller has to acknowledge if they know or don’t know anything in regards to the lead based paints. So let’s

ATTILIO: 
talk about, let’s talk about lead, lead in paint. Were there? I mean, are there? There’s not going to be any. I mean, California gets really crazy with it. Any products that have lead in it, there’s going to be this big disclaimer on it. I noticed,

ADRIENNE: 
like, with the lead based paint, like, my understanding is that, like, if you’re like, if you eat the paint chips, it can kill you, right?

ATTILIO: 
So if you’re licking or chewing the walls, you could be in a very hazardous situation. Yes,

KENTON: 
that should be in your disclosures, right? Don’t lick or chew on the wall, exactly.

ATTILIO: 
Well, I think where it was funny, because in high school, I did a study on lead paint affecting IQ. Tests for children. And there was a study that showed that the kids who were toddlers and grew up in lead pain environments had learning challenges and this and that, and it did affect their brain growth. So it became, yeah, that was, and that was back in the 80s that I did that. I just, I just remember in high school doing that, that paper report on it, and learning about that, and not even knowing about that, but I guess they put lead in it. It’s cheap, it’s everywhere, and made makes the paints more resilient, but it’s not a good thing. And then also in gasoline. We used to have lead in our gasoline, until Ralph Nader got all up in there and made that change. But let’s talk about lead in the paint. If, if it’s, is it? Is it just like the asbestos? In your opinion, one of those things, if left alone, it’s okay.

KENTON: 
Well, the concern with lead in paint, and you sort of touched on it, is child exposure, yeah, and the problem with lead is that oftentimes it’s adjacent to sliding doors, or even doors that open and close other areas that you know might be moving and causing friction, yes, and what that tends to do is sort of shave off the dust into shave off the paint, into a dust, and then the dust can accumulate on the floor. And then, if you have a child that’s not walking yet, which is the high risk years, they have a lot of hand to mouth. They’re crawling, you know, picking up toys, putting them in their mouth. And so that’s where the that’s where the big concern is, yeah, there’s concern, again, with demolition for workers, but usually the homeowner, whether it’s the buyer, the seller, is there when that’s happening. So that’s a worker protection thing. But a lot of young families that are looking to purchase those tend to be the ones that are asking for lead paint testing more so than than other populations. Gotcha.

ADRIENNE: 
So.

So Kenton, how? How do you resolve the lead paint, the lead based paint, once it’s found, as you know, with with your test, what’s the safest way

ATTILIO: 
to remediate that? Yes,

KENTON: 
yeah.

I mean, it is similar to asbestos, in that if it’s in good condition, it doesn’t necessarily present a hazard other than those friction surfaces that I had mentioned, I’ve often seen people put non lead paint over the lead paint surface, And that provides a layer of protection. It basically encapsulates it. Lead doesn’t become airborne very much, so it’s not exactly the same exposure concern as asbestos. With asbestos, you’re worried about it getting up in the air and breathing it. With lead, you’re worried about dust. And other potential conditions where you might actually ingest it. Gotcha.

ADRIENNE: 
So with that, probably the easiest thing to do is you paint over it with a couple of layers of non non lead paints.

ATTILIO: 
Non lead paint, just like you said, encapsulated, yeah, yeah.

KENTON: 
And lead isn’t real common in the interior locations, yeah, you know atilio, I think you to the fact that they use lead because it makes the paint more durable and less to weathering. Well, the concern about weathering and durability is generally on the exterior. So older painted exterior would be my, you know, target area if I were to try to find lead paint, interior paint, the flats and the semi gloss. That’s usually not something that I would recommend somebody you know sampling for for

ATTILIO: 
lead. Gotcha. Okay.

ADRIENNE: 
So so Kenton, if any of our listeners have you know further questions about asbestos or molds or they need help with any of this testing, what would be the best way for them to get a hold of you.

KENTON: 
Best way to get a hold of us would be to call our office number, which is 808-262-0909,

or they can email us at info, I n, f, O, at ENPRO, environmental.com

ADRIENNE: 
Okay, okay, make sure that you let them know that you heard about them on the team Lally real estate radio show.

ATTILIO: 
All right. Any, any last things you want to share with our listeners before we let you go.

KENTON: 
We at ENPro have developed services that are streamlined a little, that are specific to real estate transactions. We package them and something we cleverly call res check. And we can do the res check service and then mix and match these various different environmental concerns. We didn’t talk about lead and water, but you can, we can include that in the service, if somebody wanted, some people are concerned about pesticides and soils, and then also, obviously the asbestos, mold lead paint. And it typically comes to about $1,000 for the first issue of concern, and then it’s less if you add other concerns, because you’re basically just adding samples after that. So

ATTILIO: 
So you guys are the testing experts to either qualify if something is, is there or not.

KENTON: 
Exactly, if it’s bad for you, it’s probably good for our business.

ATTILIO: 
Yeah, that’s it. And so we always tell people no piece of real estate is worth your health, because your health should always be a priority. So we’re going to highly recommend they give you guys a call if anybody has any concerns.

ADRIENNE: 
Okay, thank you. Yes. Thank you, Kenton.

ATTILIO: 
Thank you Kenton, thank

KENTON: 
you very much for the opportunity. You’re welcome. Tell now. Alrighty.

ATTILIO: 
You so again, bye, bye. You can reach them at 2620909 that’s area code 808-262-0909. Or email them at info, at EN Pro environmental.com.com, all right, that was Kenton Beal.

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